US-listed ETFS are the most tax-efficient way to invest in foreign equities within your RRSP account. The funds also tend to have lower annual fees than Canadian-listed ETFs. However, they must be bought and sold in US dollars, and if you have to exchange your Canadian dollars for greenbacks, it can be extremely costly. Many discount brokerages charge about 1.5% – or a whopping $150 on a $10,000 conversion. If you’re going to use US-listed ETFs, you need to find a way to mitigate these high costs.
If you need to convert loonies to US dollars, I’ll show you a technique that can save you hundreds of dollars per transaction. At RBC Direct Investing, there is no need to even pick up the phone: the entire process can be completed online.
Introducing Norbert’s gambit
Savvy DIY investors have long used a technique called “Norbert’s gambit” to sidestep these steep currency conversion costs. The name comes from Norbert Schlenker, an investment advisor in B.C. who was the first to popularize it.
Norbert’s gambit with DLR and DLR.U
The simplest way to do Norbert’s gambit is with the Horizons US Dollar Currency ETF. This ETF – which is equivalent to holding US cash – is available in two versions. Both trade on the TSX, but the first, with the ticker symbol DLR, is bought and sold in Canadian dollars, while the second, DLR.U, trades in US dollars.
You can use these ETFs to exchange Canadian dollars for US dollars and then use the proceeds to buy US-listed ETFs. Norbert’s gambit can be confusing, so I’ve put together a video tutorial that you can follow along with. For more information on this strategy, please refer to our white paper.
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Thanks for being a tremendous resource, Justin. Particularly for newbies like me.
Are there any concerns about NG trades not being completely filled due to fluctuating rates?, Or, filling on 1 side but not the other? My DLR buy seemed to be partitioned into 4 segments with only the smallest segment (the amount over an even 100) being filled immediately.
@Chase: If you place your buy/sell limit trades directly on the ask/bid, it should fill immediately. If the price adjusts, you can just go into the outstanding trade and adjust your limit order.
@Justin
Thanks for the great video. I noticed you sold DLR.U (Can Market) when in the past I’ve sold DLR on the US Market. I believe it’s essentially the same thing but curious why you chose DLR.U (CAN) vs. DLR (US) on the sell. My assumption is to minimize the risk of mistakenly selling DLR (CAN).
@Sterling: DLR.U and DLR don’t trade on the U.S. market (they are Canadian-based ETFs).
@Justin
Thanks for the great video. I come back to your site whenever I do the NG as it’s such a great resource. I learnt something new/different this time around and have a question.
I noticed you sold DLR.U (Can Market) when in the past I’ve sold DLR on the US Market. I believe it’s essentially the same thing but curious why you chose DLR.U (CAN) vs. DLR (US) on the sell. My assumption is to minimize the risk of mistakenly selling DLR (CAN).
Hey Justin I just talked to someone at RBC yesterday and they told me that they don’t have any fees to convert CAD to USD other than the regular exchange rate. So is there no need of Norberts Gambit now??
@Gaurav K – The RBC rep is either lying to you, or is incompetent (likely both ;)
Gaurav Justin is right i was told the same thing by representative. there is no fee true however the spread is so enormous that you will end up getting less money. when i was knew i believed them it costed me $ 400 to convert 15,ooo Canadian to US. Norberts gambit you can get away with just the buying and selling fee.
@Justin: What would be the lowest amount that you would consider to still be an advantage to convert CAD to USD. I can’t seem to find it, but I think you did a calculation using withholding tax, and how long it would take to benefit from doing the conversion with Norbert Gambit and buying US ETF in RRSP, versus just buying the Canadian version.
Thanks, Que
@Que – The lowest amount would likely be around $3,000 CAD. It wouldn’t take very long to recover your costs (when using the Norbert’s gambit strategy) – likely between 0.5 to 1 year.
@Justin – I’m not normally going to have $3000 in cash in my account. Let’s say I’m putting $500 into my TFSA and $150 into my RRSP every month. I want to keep my trading fees low, so I put the money into cash, and then I periodically purchase ETF shares. I’m not normally going to wait until I have $3000 in cash built up before I make a purchase. I would have to wait almost 2 years with the RRSP. On the other hand, I have a few hundred thousand dollars in foreign equity ETFs, so it would be nice to save on withholding taxes. What do I do? What would be the mechanics of making contributions to a Ludicrous model portfolio?
I did a calculation of how much it would cost to convert CAD 30,000 to USD using Norbert’s Gambit this week on RBC Direct Investing, versus the exchange rate given by Direct Investing on the given day of the trade. To my surprise, one would save $60 by just using Direct Investing’s exchange rate. Could it be that Norbert’s Gambit is no longer necessary now, because Direct Investing is now giving us such a favorable exchange rate?
@Alan – There is likely an error in your comparison (or possibly an incorrect quote provided by a novice RBC rep). RBC Direct Investing would not be providing more U.S. dollars on a $30,000 CAD conversion for cheaper than Norbert’s gambit (or by the sounds of it in your example, cheaper than the spot rate).
You would need to obtain the quote from an RBC rep directly (i.e. over the phone) and immediately calculate how many U.S. dollars you would receive after commissions from the DLR/DLR.U transactions (there can’t be any delay in your comparison). If you simply used the outdated posted rate available on your RBC Direct Investing online access (probably the issue), this is not the same thing as calling an RBC rep and receiving an immediate current quote.
Thanks for checking this up. I only looked at the quoted exchange rate on the webpage. It is delayed by one day, so I did look at the exchange rate on the next day.
Now, when I read the footnote, it says “On the Summary and Holdings pages, the previous business day’s average exchange rate is used to calculate the holdings and balance values in your portfolio.”
I presume then, that this is the spot rate and not the actual rate given by Direct Investing. Thanks.
Hello,
The DLR buys and sells still appear on my account (over a week passed by since I ran the trade). I did get the $US but the ETFs are stil llisted in my RBC account. I ran those trades on a TFSA account. Do you know why RBC didn’t clean up the account like in the video?
Thanks!
@Karim: I would contact RBC directly – this is likely just an oversight on their part. Ensure that they reimburse any debit interest for their error.
They get back to you about this? I’m having the same issue.
Would this strategy work with other ETFs? e.g. FAO > FAO.U or HXT > HXT. U?
@Jacob Wall: FAO and FAO.U do not have the same CUSIP number, so they cannot be used for Norbert’s gambit.
HXT and HXT.U have the same CUSIP number, so they can be used for Norbert’s gambit.
Justin January 11, 2017 at 9:50 am – Reply
@Kyle: To convert USD to CAD in a taxable account, the process would be very similar. In this case, you would buy DLR.U with your US dollars on the US-dollar side of your non-registered account, and sell DLR on the Canadian-dollar side of your non-registered account.
so if i understand it goes like this ?
STEP 1 :
account : TFSA USD
MKT: USD
BUY: DLR-U
STEP 2:
account :TFSA CAD
MKT : CAD
action : SELL
symbol : DLR
is that correct ?
@Pierre: Close. To convert USD to CAD in a TFSA at RBC Direct Investing, STEP 1 would be to buy DLR.U in the TFSA USD on the Canadian market.
Hi,
Justin, please, how do you do USD -> CAD with RBC ?
Hi Justin – thanks for the great tutorials explaining how to execute NG! Do the savings in foreign withholding taxes and the lower MERs from holding US ETFs more than offset the cost of converting Canadian dollars to greenback when our dollar is weak compared to the US dollar?
@JR: Whether you purchase a Canadian-listed U.S. equity ETF (like VUN in Canadian dollars) or a U.S.-listed U.S. equity ETF (like VTI in U.S. dollars), your underlying currency exposure is U.S. dollars. When you purchase VUN, Vanguard Canada will take your Canadian dollars and convert them to U.S. dollars (behind the scenes) in order to purchase VTI for their fund’s U.S. equity exposure.
So a “weak” Canadian dollar relative to the U.S dollar (or any currency for that matter) should not have any consideration on whether to use U.S.-listed or Canadian-listed ETFs.
Fabulous thread.
It is now January 12 2019, so a year has gone by.
Any changes to the Norbert’s Gambit Strategy of note with RBC DI?
Cheers,
Ernie
@Ernst Vahlbruch: Not that I am aware of.
Thanks J Bender! Great instructions, great graphics with a soothing voice! Keep up the good work :).
@cheb: Thanks for watching! (and it’s the first time anyone has described my voice as “soothing”)
Hi Justin
I want to inquire whether you will be planning to do a video on executing Norbert’s Gambit at Scotia iTrade, since they now have the option for a USD side in an RRSP account that is more desirable than their previous “US-friendly RRSP”. If there is no video planned specifically for the iTrade platform, could you please note which other platform it is closest to for being able to execute NG successfully?
Thanks in advance!
Amanda
@Amanda: I haven’t tried out Norbert’s gambit at Scotia iTRADE yet, but when I do, I’ll be certain to put together a video tutorial for it.
I unfortunately do not have any additional information at this time regarding the exact process.
Hi Justin, do you know why some brokerages allow for instant journalling while others require us to wait for the trade to settle first?
@Jonathan L: No, I don’t know why some brokerages do things one way, and other brokerage do things in a different way.
Great blog and tutorials Justin! I recently converted US to CAD in non-registered RBC DI account, following the tutorial. One day past the settlement dates I still had the separate transactions so I called the support. What they told me was that in order to do the Norbert’s gambit you have to call ask them to journal the trades. They did so and it was all ok. It might be a new DI policy, they changed a lot of things recently.
@Toni: Thanks for the heads up! Keep an eye on your RBC account…they may try to charge you debit interest (if they do, you can just call them back and ask them to reimburse your account).
Hi Justin,
Is the procedure you explained in this tutorial any different if I am doing NG in a non-registered account?
I tried to do NG with RBC Direct Investing this morning in my cash investment account. My order to purchase DLR got filled. But the following order to sell DRL.U got rejected with message “We are unable to process this order as there were insufficient holdings in your account…” . I have verified that I have selected the USD side of the same account, and entered the exact number of shares I had purchased. Have you experienced such an issue with RBC DI?
Thank you
@JamesB: I’ve never had this issue in the past, but I haven’t recently tried a gambit in an RBC Direct Investing non-registered account. Are you trying to do this in an RBC DI practice account? (if so, it won’t work there).
Thanks Justin for your response. I was doing it in my actual account that I had just opened. I got worried as I was dealing with a large amount. I gave RBC DI a call and they sorted out, still not sure what I was doing wrong. My subsequent NG trades went smoothly and my portfolio is all setup now.
Also confirmed with RBC DI that we don’t have to wait until settlement date (T + 2 days) to use the converted funds to place new trades, but have to wait if you wanted to transfer funds out of your DI account (e.g. to your bank account).
I can’t thank you enough for all the effort you put in these articles to help us DIY investors!
@JamesB: I’m so glad to hear that the transaction went smoothly – thank you for confirming that the gambit is still alive and well at RBC Direct Investing ;)
Hi Justin,
Any chance you can make this same exact using rbc direct investing converting USD–CAD ?
Also is in this video you don’t mention the settlement dates? are the trade settlements done in real-time ?
@John Smith: I have no plans to make a video for converting USD to CAD at RBC Direct Investing (the process is just the opposite to my posted video: buy DLR.U in the USD account, sell DLR in the CAD account). All of the trades can be completed on the same trade date (as long as there are no holidays between the trade date and settlement date that differ for the US and Canadian stock markets – this caveat is only relevant if you are buying/selling US-listed ETFs on the same trade date).
Thanks for such great tutorial! Do you have any hints on doing such Gambit at discounted brokers? (I have account with Questrade but never traded in USD). From what I know there is no separate USD accounts…
Thanks again!
@Aleks: You’re very welcome! MoneyGeek has created a Norbert’s gambit tutorial for Questrade if you’re interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UQjz8ZoM0U
Hi Justin, thanks for the great video. Considering there would be a ~$10 fee to buy and another to the sell the ETF (~$20 total), what would be the minimum amount of money that you would suggest converting before using Norbert’s gambit? $2000? Thanks again for the video, very useful.
@Maximus: I would generally recommend a minimum conversion amount of between $5,000 and $10,000 CAD. With these minimums, the additional trading commissions and bid/ask spreads should be offset by the reduced foreign withholding taxes and expense ratios within 1-2 years.
@Justin: Thanks again for the advice. Much appreciated.
Thanks so much!
Can this also be done in non-registered cash accounts (US and Canadian) or does it have to be in RRSPs? I live in Canada but earn my income in US dollars it might be cheaper to convert my money this way than with a foreign exchange service like Knightsbridge.
Thanks!
@Kyle: To convert USD to CAD in a taxable account, the process would be very similar. In this case, you would buy DLR.U with your US dollars on the US-dollar side of your non-registered account, and sell DLR on the Canadian-dollar side of your non-registered account.
Hi Justin, just another thought. Would there be tax implications here? Would the bank indicate I’ve earned a profit from selling DLR?
@Kyle: You would need to obtain the Canadian dollar cost of purchasing DLR.U (generally, you can use the Bank of Canada FX rate available on the settlement date of the trade), and subtract this amount from the Canadian dollar proceeds from selling DLR. The banks usually calculate this gain/loss incorrectly, so you will be required to manually do so.
Will there be video tutorials about Norbert’s Gambit for TD Direct Investing and other banks?
@Sebastien: There sure will be – stay tuned for more :)
I sure will do !